|
Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 1, 2007 17:47:11 GMT -5
News report, direct from the lab! ;D Meltdown Firefox:- Third attempt: uncompressed Firefox, no installer: Result: nsprt4.dll does not like my 386, 'cause it crashes everytime when i try to run or install FF... The experiment was a total failure. Once i get more RAM, i will try it again in the future, but at least SOMETHING worked (the installer at least booted) Next experiments: - Microsoft Office 97... when i get a SCSI disk! - Linux: always in the wishlist, i have an spare Samsung 2 gig HD ONLY for this experiment. - MP3/MPEG-video playback: if you like slideshows... - Gimme ideas, please... Socket 7 junkyard- Three motherboards were tested: * that crappy M560 * the unknown Soyo ATX board with bad caps * a FIC PA-2001 that was lying around the room: Results: - The M560 was dead! Tested with P133, P166, P200, even a Cyrix PR233! No luck with this piece of crap... - The PA-2001: either it was dead, or FIC motherboards are damn tricky to get them running... - The Soyo model VB-something, VIA MVP3 chipset: works fine, but it's another tricky motherboard. Oh, the bad caps (there are at least two) run quite HOT!. It loads Linux fine... but it caused me several kernel panics until i disabled ACPI in Knoppix. Seems to be OK after all, and has a nice graphical POST screen - In my quest for DS12887's, i got no results, save for two Houston Tech HT12888's, from the variety without battery (they're simply VIA VT82885 with a fancy Dallas-alike cover). Saved for future usage, since adding a battery to these should be trivial. - Got some goodies from the lab! A couple of 32Mb SIMMs (a 486 with 64M of RAM is awfully slow on POST, but damn fast under Windows 95), and a Pentium 233MMX. Reserved for the recording box: "Saki" on steroids? Will a M535 work with a P233MMX? The answer, tomorrow... ;D I'm starting to love Fridays... UPDATE: The VT82885 datasheet => stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/contrib/doc/specs/ic/clock/vt82c885.pdfAnd how to rework a battery-dead DS128(8)7 => www.mcamafia.de/mcapage0/dsrework.htmBut... would it work with a VT82885? The HT12888 has no crystal, only a battery (if any)... And, the pin 16 on the VT82885 is NC, not GND. Any advice? EDIT: Google has tne answer... what a surprise . My VT82885 runs with an external oscillator, but the battery can or can not be integrated, and pin 16 is for battery (-). Problem solved! Now, time to milk the cash cow for those lithium cells...
|
|
|
Post by paulpsomiadis on Jun 1, 2007 20:20:20 GMT -5
evildragon - I can sympathise! I'm also a skint student with no job! ...it sucks when there's so much kewl tech. and no cash to buy it with! @tom - what are the values for the bad Cap.'s? [Value = #uF and #V for each respectively] Where: #uF= number, microfarad #V = number, volts You should find replacements and get someone with GOOD soldering skills to replace them before they go POP! [NB - popping capacitors are BAAAAD!] ;D
|
|
|
Post by evildragon on Jun 1, 2007 21:14:59 GMT -5
heh, if tom was near me, i'd offer my soldering skills.. im a great person with a soldering iron.. once I got so pissed that my PS/2 only had it's on-board hardwired monochrome graphics, I desoldered the connection, installed a VGA card, desoldered the HD-15 connector, and soldered the monitor wires to the VGA card (combining R, G, and B.. though, that's going to improve with some resistors soon for a nice high quality weighted greyscale), to give me almost 768 shades of grey! Before: blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/ibmbefore.jpgAfter: blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/ibmafter.jpgSo yea, im handy with an iron..
|
|
|
Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 2, 2007 11:10:01 GMT -5
Don't worry, the mantainer of the lab is a Electronic Enginner, and he loves to fix things like these motherboards, so this Soyo will get a fix coming soon (if we find any spare capacitor that matches those "soon-to-make-kaboom" ones). Poking inside a CRT? Not for me... me and those thousands of volts do not mix Now, the results of "Saki on Steroids" quick experiment: - The 32MB SIMMs worked fine... but i had to raise the memory timings to 70ns, because these sticks were pretty unstable at 60ns. Oh, well... don't expect miracles from parts made in 1994. At least i did not noticed any slowdown. With 96M of RAM, swap usage is zero (that's always good), and i now have at least 30MB of free RAM - The P233MMX: there is NO WAY to get more than 225MHz from the M535/8... but at least it should run cooler than my P200MMX (when i was to remove it, the fancooler was VERY HOT!, hotter than the voltage regulators, hotter than the harddrives... amazingly it still works even after running 24/7!)
|
|
|
Post by evildragon on Jun 2, 2007 17:31:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 2, 2007 19:28:44 GMT -5
I COULD get a (untested) Zip drive from the junkyard... but, who use these things today? In Venezuela (and most parts in Latin America), Zip drives were not popular at all... In one of the computer labs at my university, there are one IDE Zip drive that is still used from time to time (although it seems that it's no longer in use since the last year...). Yours is the parallel port version, right? I've heard that these ones were quite slow and unreliable, compared with the IDE and USB models. In other news: I would like to get one of these for my 386... But... - it's not available yet - it will be expensive! - there may not be Win95 drivers for it
|
|
|
Post by evildragon on Jun 2, 2007 19:47:12 GMT -5
it's the parrelel port one, yes, but so far, it's worked great, and quite speedy too.. my domain controller has the IDE version (a 250), and it's actually slower (backwards compatibility)..
ZIP drives are good for old computers, where a CD-Burner is impractical, and USB is non-existant..
|
|
|
Post by GiGaBiTe on Jun 3, 2007 15:39:34 GMT -5
16 meg and 32 meg simms (30-pin) was very very hard to obtain in the days when the 486 came out, and is still probably hard to get today. i think the largest amount of memory a -normal- 386 could be upgraded to is 16 megs, since 16 megs was already over kill for a 386 (but for a 486, was a pretty nice system =D). i plan to rewrite the bios for this small 386 pc motherboard for fun, later, so that i could use "devster dos" =P On the contrary! They were EASY to find... just damned expensive. My boss paid $1100 for his 32MB SIMM. ;D He had no trouble finding it, and it shipped immediately. You just had to have the money... The reason why most 386 boards only supported 16M was because the memory controller didn't allow more. A 386 DX has a 32 bit address and data bus and can therefore address up to 4 GB of memory. The 386 SX couldn't address that much memory because it only had a 24 bit address bus. Also, 32M Simms are not hard to find and are relatively cheap if you know where to look. I have a whole pile of 16M and 32M Simms in a box plus two 64M Simms that I use in my 486. a FIC PA-2001 that was lying around the room FIC boards are generally troublesome to get working because they have so many jumpers on them, but once you get them to work, they will generally be rock solid. I used to have 3 of them, but one had the voltage regulator blow out and smoked the board. Pretty sure this was related to lightning though.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 3, 2007 19:35:02 GMT -5
After reading the Red Hill guide entry for the PA-2002 (a very similar board), i can confirm: with FIC motherboards, you need a whole load of patience, a manual and a appropiate CPU/RAM combo. On the other side, it can deal with a single SIMM, so it's a very interesting board. The original owner told me that this board was NOT dead, so i will not give up... yet ;D And about the P233MMX on "Saki on steroids" experiment: i will do it again, this forum post from ajz (a guru on PCCHIPS boards) told me something interesting: Translation: the P233MMX is setup like a P100 (multiplier 1.5X, bus at 66MHz), but it handles the 1.5X multiplier as 3.5X, and with the bus at 75MHz, i can get up to 262.5MHz!!! (although the voltage may need to be raised a bit for reach stability, but generating a whole load of heat in the process). Anyone knows a GOOD heatsink/fan cooler for Socket 7 motherboards?
|
|
|
Post by paulpsomiadis on Jun 4, 2007 18:57:39 GMT -5
evildragon - I know what you mean about KEWL soldering skills. I've modded so many consoles it's getting rediculous! I also once repaired a GeForce card that had a totalled VGA port - all of the RGB tracks and several components around the VGA port had to be repaired/replaced...and... IT LIVES! (the thing that sucked was the guy I repaired it for didn't use it in the end!) Also ZIP drives SUCK A$$...especially the LPT versions, be sure to get the "click check" tools to help you avoid the "click of death" (it killed my LPT ZIP drive!) @tom - any cooler from Thermaltake ROCKS!
|
|
|
Post by GiGaBiTe on Jun 4, 2007 19:37:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure that the PA-2001 is a mainstream board. There is no mention of it ever being created on the FIC website which leads me to believe it may either be an engineering board sample or a cheap knockoff. But like you said, you need a lot of time to fiddle with the settings on that board as pretty much every aspect of an FIC board is manual (which can be a good thing)
Also, I don't know if the FIC board supports a 233MMX as it was a strange chip for the day and not a lot of boards supported it. I don't even think my PA-2013 supports that chip.
As for overclocking and cooling, socket 7 processors don't overclock well and will usually malfunction or cause the system to hang. You can stay within the bus speed and multiplier range (like having a P100 run at 166) but when you max out the multipliers, you really can't increase the bus speed without causing the system to not boot. Any socket 7 heatsink will work as long as it has a fan on it as those CPUs didn't generate much heat compared to modern CPUs.
|
|
|
Post by evildragon on Jun 4, 2007 21:04:30 GMT -5
evildragon - I know what you mean about KEWL soldering skills. I've modded so many consoles it's getting rediculous! I also once repaired a GeForce card that had a totalled VGA port - all of the RGB tracks and several components around the VGA port had to be repaired/replaced...and... IT LIVES! (the thing that sucked was the guy I repaired it for didn't use it in the end!) Also ZIP drives SUCK A$$...especially the LPT versions, be sure to get the "click check" tools to help you avoid the "click of death" (it killed my LPT ZIP drive!) @tom - any cooler from Thermaltake ROCKS! I've never had a problem with my ZIP drive, it's been working great. The only click is when a disk is being loaded, because the heads have a solenoid to spring the head out onto the disk, off of it's resting pad.. If we didn't have CD-R or flash disk, we'd still be using Zip Drives.. not to mention, the Zip drive is now at 750MB, with supposedly no more clicks of death.. so, i love the zip drive.. it's the ONLY way to get large data access on an old XT based computer, while still being a local disk. CD-ROMs don't work on XTs, the drivers hang the computer, especially parallel ones.. there will be an ISA USB card soon, as posted above, but I doubt my XT will take that (XT = 8-bit ISA)
|
|
|
Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 5, 2007 9:40:04 GMT -5
That PA-2001 seems to be a real FIC, i even have found the manual for it! In the lab, i also found a couple of PA-2002s... so i can see some pain in my future related with testing these boards... BTW: my PA-2001 has the same chipset of the PA-2002 (a VIA Apollo or something), but the cache is installed in DIP chips, rather than in COAST sockets. It could be a very early model that was quickly discontinued... And about the P233MMX: my PCCHIPS M535/8 is absolutely hopeless above 225MHz: memtest86 spits errors or crashes, and i got a whole load of segfaults each time that i try to run Linux there at 233 or 262.5MHz. This board is rock-solid stable at 225MHz (75MHz bus), but only there, any attempt to get max speed is useless I also got a RARE 64MB DIMM from those ones supported by VX chipsets (those 8Mx8 chips): it's BIG (32 chips!), but it's useless, because i still must slowdown the RAM to 70ns if i use large memory sticks. Also, my 32Mb SIMMs were not from 1994, but from very early 2000! This board is another PCCRAP special, just look this: - 200MHz: OK - 225MHz, memory at 60ns: OK, if you use 16Mb or smaller SIMMs - 225MHz, memory at 70ns: OK for large SIMMs/DIMMs - 233MHz+: disaster!
|
|
|
Post by GiGaBiTe on Jun 5, 2007 19:07:04 GMT -5
Pentium 233's are 66.5 MHz with a 3.5 multiplier. If the board you have doesn't have a multiplier over 3.0, then the chip won't work in that system at the desired speed.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 6, 2007 10:02:54 GMT -5
The Pentium 233 handles the 1.5X multiplier of my board as 3.5X, but, even if i can "see" the entire speed, the system is prone to crashes and memory corruption appears. I got two extra 32MB SIMMs - Apacer brand, with LG chips - and noticed another oddity with this board: if you put only 16MB SIMMs or only 32MB SIMMS, you can run your memory at 60ns with no worries. However, if you put 32MB SIMMs in one bank, and 16MB SIMMs in the other (or if you mix SIMMs with DIMMs), the system is stable only at 70ns. This board is very funky, eh?
|
|