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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 22:34:16 GMT -5
And a ( uncompressed ) map of 4000x4000 isn't realistic .. you'd need a 128Mb cartridge for just the map. Moon responded in another topic that a 4000x4000 array is less-than-feasible without serious compression. In that vein, what strategies are there for large game maps? Traditional compression can only go so far. The Faery Tale Adventure is cited to use pre-made chunks of world map that get cobbled together. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faery_Tale_AdventureDaggerfall and Oblivion (PC games) seem to rely heavily on procedural content augmented by level designer customizations. www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:WOODS.WLD_formatWhat approach would you use for maximum world size? What would you do to minimize redundancy and boredom that often accompanies random/procedural content? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 8:24:18 GMT -5
 You do realize that the entire world map of "A Link to the Past" is "only" 256x256 right? A 4000x4000 map would give you 244 times more surface area* So, good luck with that .. *When using the same cell to tile-ratio. |
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Post by TheMVRules on Jun 19, 2011 8:53:45 GMT -5
LttP reuses the same tiles for terrain, cliffs etc. as well. There is an ImaGenesis function for this too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 12:37:06 GMT -5
4000 by 4000 would give you 32,000 pixels by 32,000 pixels. That's a lot of pixels. I don't know any game in the 16 bit era that used anything close to that for a level/map.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 12:46:39 GMT -5
@elusive - Actually, 64000x64000 pixels using the "A Link to the Past" ratio  TheMVRules - I wasn't even talking tiles, just the map data alone would be enormous. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 13:45:30 GMT -5
@moon: I'm assuming they used a tile set of something like 2x2 tiles then, right? Never really thought ALTTP was that huge... good to know  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 14:44:34 GMT -5
You do realize that the entire world map of "A Link to the Past" is "only" 256x256 right? A 4000x4000 map would give you 244 times more surface area* So, good luck with that .. *When using the same cell to tile-ratio. Don't make me whip up a game with 65535 by 65535 map chunks! I'll do it! Er, unless theres something fishy about using 65535 as a seed value - then I'll have to do 65534 x 65534. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 16:14:00 GMT -5
Sorry to bump my own topic but I just realised: Taking into account the memory used by BasiEgaXorz itself, is the maximum 16 bit integer array size about 178x178? That really wouldn't hold much level data..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 16:33:17 GMT -5
It sounds like you're confusing ROM with RAM. Mega Drive cartridges can hold 4MB ( which is 16Mb ) of data without bank-switching.
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Post by jlf65 on Jun 20, 2011 23:20:14 GMT -5
It sounds like you're confusing ROM with RAM. Mega Drive cartridges can hold 4MB ( which is 16Mb ) of data without bank-switching. 4MB is 32Mbits.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 1:48:24 GMT -5
I am confused, this there is no argument on Static map data should be able to be pretty big. What I was thinking of is an array for player modifiable map sections. Say, if the player destroys 10 bricks here and creates a fence there. What is the biggest array of 16 bit integers BasiEgaXorz can create? Is 4MB the biggest binary BasiEgaXorz can create (and work?). So 32mb and Pier Solar sizes are not possible in BASIC? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 4:39:15 GMT -5
4MB is 32Mbits. Oops .. I shouldn't be posting past my bedtime  @theloon - For a dynamic / destructible map I wouldn't go higher then a 128x128 array ( 1-byte per cell ). Which is pretty big if you compare it to the first map ( 46x44 ) of Theme Park. Not sure if BEX supports bank-switching. If it doesn't, then no .. you can't do a 64 Megabit / 8 Megabyte game ( hope I got it right this time ). |
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Post by jlf65 on Jun 21, 2011 4:50:17 GMT -5
;D
Just remember, 8 bits in a byte, so Mbytes to Mbits is just *8. Very simple!
And I agree with the others... 128x128 for the overall map should be fine. Even Wolf3D is only 64x64. Using a word for each entry of a 128x128 map only uses 32KB and allows for 65536 unique blocks (or fewer blocks plus some flags). That should be more than enough for any game that will run on the MD.
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Post by sega16 on Jun 23, 2011 22:18:59 GMT -5
do what sonic the hedeghog did:
first their is the tiles that then their is 16x16 blocks 2x2 tiles then their is 128x128 chucnks then the game uses the blocks to make the chucks then finally the chucks are put into a level.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 7:32:02 GMT -5
The main reason for Sonic using map-chunks is that the levels aren't square, so it's a good way to prevent having a bunch of "unused" data. If your levels are square ( most RPG's for example ), this approach only adds overhead and should be avoided.
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