oompa loompa
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Post by oompa loompa on Jun 3, 2011 15:56:34 GMT -5
BEX has the capability of making huge games like RPG's so even if it takes you a few years to get the SNES version to where BEX is, it'll definitely be a useful IDE. Just toss in the asm/end asm code blocks as well, and if you have any SNES ASM documentation, toss it out to us as well Compiler will be command line . To tell you the truth, I'm using Ubuntu as my machine, but the Windows version will come out first. I will provide a simple IDE too most likely in the future I actually originally planned to make this compiler support both C and BASIC syntax! (and the two could be mixed together). This was actually my motivation to starting all this. But yeah, but I ditched the idea because I thought it was just too ugly . omg documentation would be nuts Nono, migrate from BASIC to C . It will take a person forever until we can get a next Mario Kart if someone did their stuff in assembly
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 16:21:22 GMT -5
I'd be more than happy to help with the documentation Oompa
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Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 3, 2011 16:28:09 GMT -5
Mmmm... command-line and Linux. Now we're talking serious business... Throw in a cheap Makefile, "make", and let it rip As long as you provide a clear syntax definition document, someone could write syntax highlighting filters for the popular editors, or even... [drool]a NetBeans plugin[/drool] Consider using a hacked bsnes build as a debugging station, and we're all set. Anyway, precise documentation is a must, hopefully those docs will be MUCH better than the current BEX manual, which is a... mess Mixing BASIC AND C!? Wow... i want to puke
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oompa loompa
I AM THE GOVERNATOR
"Git 'Er Dun!"
Posts: 1,301
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Post by oompa loompa on Jun 3, 2011 16:54:21 GMT -5
I don't plan to release a Linux version. Well not for now. Linux version for my personal use . Just too many things to keep track of and support. Yes, mix BASIC and C . Yes, I wanted to be one of the few to do this!
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Post by jlf65 on Jun 3, 2011 21:05:33 GMT -5
@oompa - You probably meant "migrate to assembly" ( instead of C ) No, he probably meant C. BASIC to C is an easy transition compared to BASIC to assembly, and C if good enough for most things. theloon's first link has a link to a great SNES C compiler/SDK - it's what we use for the NeoFlash SNES Myth cart. C is also almost universal - it's available for very nearly every platform ever made. Even the SMS and NES are supported by a decent C compiler (sdcc). I use the latest gcc for the MD - I just wish gcc had support for more 8/16 bit CPUs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 23:45:29 GMT -5
I don't plan to release a Linux version. Well not for now. Linux version for my personal use . Just too many things to keep track of and support. Yes, mix BASIC and C . Yes, I wanted to be one of the few to do this! I think BatariBASIC has a linux based compiler but that's about it. I'm sure with time WINE and mono will be good enough to support the IDE's from Windows and use the native Linux compiler. Devster might consider that strategy when the code firms up. I also think it would be interesting to have an ability where you could highlight a label or function and convert it to C. C should be for ultra optimizing BASIC code like assembly was for C coders. [ Stands on Soap Box ]My opinion is great tinkerers and thinkerers like the makers of BasiEgaXorz and BatariBASIC are thinking backwards about their user base. Forgive my presumption but hear me out The object of getting more people to make classic console games shouldn't be to drag them into assembly/C but to eleviate technicial issues to allow them to blossom as game makers. Make it easy in the IDE to make platform games. Have a world map editor built in. Treat sprites as objects with properties including code and variables. I think BASIC can be awesome in an event driven system. I'd love a BASIC code block in my player object that gets called when a collision happens. Anyone willing to learn/use assembly or C is already doing it. The kids that grew up with SNES also grew up in a world where robust IDEs and rapid application development was growing. Heck, even Visual Basic had a DOS version right beside QuickBASIC. Attract the newer crowd and watch your user base grow (and thus Devster inspired platformers). [ / Breaks Soap Box while Dismounting, Falls on Face ]Oh, and to keep (the IDE) cross-platform you could modify Eclipse like these guys did: enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/LateralGM:DevelopingOne last thought: Name BasiEgaXorz for the SNES Birage as an homage to the first real dev unit Mirage. www.patpend.net/articles/ar/sil10.html
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 2:45:39 GMT -5
@oompa - You probably meant "migrate to assembly" ( instead of C ) No, he probably meant C. Just speaking from my own experience. When I started with BEX I didn't know anything about Mega Drive programming, but now I'm fairy comfortable writing in ASM for several systems. BEX was great stepping stone towards that. ( C / C++ is my main language for "normal" development by the way )
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Post by jlf65 on Jun 6, 2011 0:21:25 GMT -5
Just speaking from my own experience. When I started with BEX I didn't know anything about Mega Drive programming, but now I'm fairy comfortable writing in ASM for several systems. BEX was great stepping stone towards that. ( C / C++ is my main language for "normal" development by the way ) Your already knowing C/C++ probably helped more than the BEX. C in particular is a VERY low-level language, being one step up from raw assembly. In fact, one of my favorite articles from Dr Dobb's was on PL68K - a C subset that mapped 1:1 to 68000 assembly. For example d0 = *(int *)a0++; becomes move.l (a0)++,d0
d0 += d1; becomes add.l d1,d0
Once you truly understand 680x0 assembly and C, you realize Motorola designed the ISA around C. It's why C compilers for the 68000 were so prevalent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 7:37:28 GMT -5
Your already knowing C/C++ probably helped more than the BEX Hmm, I have to disagree. A language is just a language .. the meat lies with the hardware / API. For example, if you already know C, there's virtually nothing to learn about the syntax of GLSL anymore. However, you won't be able to write anything substantially without understanding vertex / fragment shaders and other GPU specific concepts. BEX introduces developers to the Mega Drive hardware in a pain-free way, whether it uses BASIC or C or Pascal doesn't really matter. You're free to disagree of course *Of course there's also the "overlapping" syntax-independent knowledge on game programming that helps regardless of hardware & language, but that's something different altogether.
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oompa loompa
I AM THE GOVERNATOR
"Git 'Er Dun!"
Posts: 1,301
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Post by oompa loompa on Jun 6, 2011 12:43:50 GMT -5
I don't plan to release a Linux version. Well not for now. Linux version for my personal use . Just too many things to keep track of and support. Yes, mix BASIC and C . Yes, I wanted to be one of the few to do this! I think BatariBASIC has a linux based compiler but that's about it. I'm sure with time WINE and mono will be good enough to support the IDE's from Windows and use the native Linux compiler. Devster might consider that strategy when the code firms up. I also think it would be interesting to have an ability where you could highlight a label or function and convert it to C. C should be for ultra optimizing BASIC code like assembly was for C coders. [ Stands on Soap Box ]My opinion is great tinkerers and thinkerers like the makers of BasiEgaXorz and BatariBASIC are thinking backwards about their user base. Forgive my presumption but hear me out The object of getting more people to make classic console games shouldn't be to drag them into assembly/C but to eleviate technicial issues to allow them to blossom as game makers. Make it easy in the IDE to make platform games. Have a world map editor built in. Treat sprites as objects with properties including code and variables. I think BASIC can be awesome in an event driven system. I'd love a BASIC code block in my player object that gets called when a collision happens. Anyone willing to learn/use assembly or C is already doing it. The kids that grew up with SNES also grew up in a world where robust IDEs and rapid application development was growing. Heck, even Visual Basic had a DOS version right beside QuickBASIC. Attract the newer crowd and watch your user base grow (and thus Devster inspired platformers). [ / Breaks Soap Box while Dismounting, Falls on Face ]Oh, and to keep (the IDE) cross-platform you could modify Eclipse like these guys did: enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/LateralGM:DevelopingOne last thought: Name BasiEgaXorz for the SNES Birage as an homage to the first real dev unit Mirage. www.patpend.net/articles/ar/sil10.htmlOh no sir, no need for the soap box, it's a pleasure . Okay, the issue with making a "new age" kind of development platform is that.... okay, it's super hard! I'm more of a hardware guy rather than a software developer, so my skills will never be good enough to accomplish something like this in the time period I want (by this decade I mean, we won't be able to use SNES on our TV's 10 years from now ). It's a very good idea. I think it also takes a lot of hard work to create the base concept for this, and then expand it. Something like the BASIC language, or C is very easy to implement because the implementation concept is super mature . And then I understand what you mean by object-oriented. I may make this object oriented, but I'll think about it deeply! Right now I just want to release something simple and usable. I don't really want to create a professional and creative development kit because really this is only the SNES. 3.58Mhz... who's going to use that? About attracting new users ("new age language" vs plain BASIC): well I dunno, I can't really predict the future, and I don't have the statistics. I attracted moon with BEX, so you could probably say that I'm very content with life About moving from BASIC to either C or assembly. I started with DOS BASIC, then went to using QuickC on DOS. I only went on to assembly because there's this platform (Z80 console) that I really anxious to code for, but there was no high-level language available. So I learned assembly, which then taught me hardware
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2011 2:31:26 GMT -5
Hmmn.. actually listening to Devster instead of barking requests is hard. I think I got through most of it though! Okay, NEW PLAN! <- Er, humble suggestion A. Connect with jwierer of VisualbB fame. I think his IDE for BatariBASIC is also coded in Visual Basic. He might be able to give you a huge boost in making a rockin' IDE for SNES/BasiEgzXorz (Birage!) www.atariage.com/forums/topic/123849-visual-bb-1-0-a-new-ide-for-batari-basic/B. Make the very first demo/example a highly editable and readable platform engine. Maybe comments even (make sure it's "OMG! teh Winzorz" style though) I'm pretty sure many people get sucked into YoYoGames Game Maker due to the excellent Super Mario 3 engines available. This could work for us too.
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oompa loompa
I AM THE GOVERNATOR
"Git 'Er Dun!"
Posts: 1,301
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Post by oompa loompa on Jun 7, 2011 12:47:35 GMT -5
Hmmn.. actually listening to Devster instead of barking requests is hard. I think I got through most of it though! Okay, NEW PLAN! <- Er, humble suggestion A. Connect with jwierer of VisualbB fame. I think his IDE for BatariBASIC is also coded in Visual Basic. He might be able to give you a huge boost in making a rockin' IDE for SNES/BasiEgzXorz (Birage!) www.atariage.com/forums/topic/123849-visual-bb-1-0-a-new-ide-for-batari-basic/B. Make the very first demo/example a highly editable and readable platform engine. Maybe comments even (make sure it's "OMG! teh Winzorz" style though) I'm pretty sure many people get sucked into YoYoGames Game Maker due to the excellent Super Mario 3 engines available. This could work for us too. Yea, I purposely made my post like that so it's hard for you to request Visual bb looks like it's made with c# or the newer visual basic. Hmm... I'm just providing the command line compiler for now . I think I'll let your guys be creative with the IDE A platformer engine I can do. I think the Genesis deserves a platformer engine as well (okay I admit colors look ugly though). Well this will all be tentative
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Post by jlf65 on Jun 8, 2011 1:10:19 GMT -5
There are literally TONS of IDEs out there - I see no reason to do anything beyond command line tools. Any IDE out can use any command line tools. If you stick pretty close to "standard" for the syntax, you can even use the IDE's syntax coloring.
If you do command line tools, it's also much easier to make cross-platform. If you stick to standard file handling, you only have to recompile on the other platform.
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Post by Tom Maneiro on Jun 8, 2011 2:46:57 GMT -5
And this is why I insist on the whole "barebones commandline compiler for Win/Linux/Mac/your toaster". The most important thing, aside of it, is having a clearly defined syntax, making the development of a custom syntax highlighter a breeze for almost any IDE out there.
And going .NET? Ugh... just NO. Mono is still a bit iffy...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 7:56:02 GMT -5
.NET is garbage. Please never go .NET. I'd almost rather use a java app than that...almost...
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