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Post by Tom Maneiro on Jul 25, 2010 19:03:08 GMT -5
But, isn't the Quake engine way too different? How many features are shared between both engines? After reading the Wikipedia artiche, there are not much common things, so using the DOOM engine for Quake looks impossible... (also, don't bother searching "doom vs quake engine differences" in Google, as almost all results will be for Quake 4 and DooM 3 ... but here is the other way: get the Quake engine working, then port the DooM maps to it id already did it during development of the Quake engine
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Post by jlf65 on Jul 25, 2010 22:13:30 GMT -5
We COULD make a DooM port and build onto its engine to make a Quake one... Uh, no. They're too different. Quake was a complete rebuild of the engine. They're not even based of the same system of rendering - Doom using raycasting, and Quake using portals. Doom is a 2.5D game with sprites; Quake is a true 3D game. And I am working on a 32X version of Doom. That will be done before I start on Quake.
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mic
Moldy Popcorn
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Post by mic on Jul 25, 2010 23:58:22 GMT -5
What will be the difference between it and the commercial release of Doom for the 32X? Better music..?
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Post by GiGaBiTe on Jul 26, 2010 0:33:59 GMT -5
We COULD make a DooM port and build onto its engine to make a Quake one... Uh, no. They're too different. Quake was a complete rebuild of the engine. They're not even based of the same system of rendering - Doom using raycasting, and Quake using portals. Doom is a 2.5D game with sprites; Quake is a true 3D game. And I am working on a 32X version of Doom. That will be done before I start on Quake. I think it would involve far less work to just port the Quake engine to the 32x and then port the Doom levels to Quake. Doom levels can easily be ported to Quake (I've seen E1M1 in Quake and Half-Life.) The monsters in Doom are simple enough to be programmed in Quake C, the only problem would be the actual models of the monsters since Doom was completely sprite based (besides the world.) This approach would give Doom the benefits of the Quake engine (radiosity based lighting instead of sector based, real 3D worlds, more detail, etc.)
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Post by TheMVRules on Jul 26, 2010 3:54:37 GMT -5
And maybe fix the "hidden levels" too... I remembered that one of them were too big for the 32X RAM.
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Post by Syniphas on Jul 26, 2010 4:47:17 GMT -5
We COULD make a DooM port and build onto its engine to make a Quake one... Uh, no. They're too different. Quake was a complete rebuild of the engine. They're not even based of the same system of rendering - Doom using raycasting, and Quake using portals. Doom is a 2.5D game with sprites; Quake is a true 3D game. And I am working on a 32X version of Doom. That will be done before I start on Quake. The original engine is different. The 32x port doesn't have to be. My idea was to make a graphics engine, aiming at doom like a warm up, then moving it into Quake. Just because they're different games doesn't mean we can't make a rendering engine for one and base the other one on that.
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Post by TheMVRules on Jul 26, 2010 10:23:17 GMT -5
Make a universal 3d engine, and then convert into Doom/Quake games.
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mic
Moldy Popcorn
Posts: 27
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Post by mic on Jul 26, 2010 12:10:04 GMT -5
The way those two games work is very different from each other. If you did a "Doom engine" and then wanted to port Quake you'd have to start from scratch again because there would be almost nothing that you could re-use. And if you wanted to play converted Doom maps with a Quake engine then there's no point in doing Doom first since all you need is the Quake engine. I'd say specialize the hell out of it If you're gonna have any chance at all to run a software-rendered Quake port at a decent speed on a 20 MHz dual SH2 machine you're going to have to do only what's absolutely necessary to get the right result (or something that looks close enough), and then optimize, optimize, optimize.
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Post by jlf65 on Jul 26, 2010 17:30:04 GMT -5
The issue with "do Quake and convert Doom to it" is in that "convert Doom to it". Go ahead - make a Doom TC for Quake and I'll skip Doom. There's a reason you only see things like ONE LEVEL converted over to Quake - it's a HELL of a lot of work!
The main thing you get from a new version of Doom for the 32X is support for multi-direction sprites. Doom 32X was one of those conversions where they made the sprites always face you, so there was no sneaking up on enemies, and no in-fighting.
I'm working on a sound engine for the 32X that plays MIDI files through the PWM. That will probably be used in whatever conversions I do.
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Post by Syniphas on Jul 26, 2010 21:32:30 GMT -5
The way those two games work is very different from each other. If you did a "Doom engine" and then wanted to port Quake you'd have to start from scratch again because there would be almost nothing that you could re-use. And if you wanted to play converted Doom maps with a Quake engine then there's no point in doing Doom first since all you need is the Quake engine. Yes, you'd have to rewrite only the logic, map etc part of the entire. Not the entire bloody thing.
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Post by Tom Maneiro on Jul 27, 2010 0:25:17 GMT -5
The way those two games work is very different from each other. If you did a "Doom engine" and then wanted to port Quake you'd have to start from scratch again because there would be almost nothing that you could re-use. And if you wanted to play converted Doom maps with a Quake engine then there's no point in doing Doom first since all you need is the Quake engine. Yes, you'd have to rewrite only the logic, map etc part of the entire. Not the entire bloody thing. But that "map and logic" part is basically the ENTIRE BLOODY THING A random Google search for "convert Doom to Quake maps" reveals that, while there are some tools for automating the process (i've seen a geometry converter that somehow helps), most of it will be manual because of the "2.5D-vs-3D" engine specs. So, for keeping things simpler (and the pain at a minimum), it's actually easier to port both engines and maps separately...
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Post by GiGaBiTe on Jul 27, 2010 2:35:56 GMT -5
The issue with "do Quake and convert Doom to it" is in that "convert Doom to it". Go ahead - make a Doom TC for Quake and I'll skip Doom. There's a reason you only see things like ONE LEVEL converted over to Quake - it's a HELL of a lot of work! I can port the maps from Doom to Quake for you, the only problem would be the models. You can use some of the Quake weapon models (shotguns, nailgun for chaingun, rockets, etc.) and models for items (armor, health), but the monsters would have to be made from scratch. I can do basic modelling, but nothing like creating monsters and animating them.
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Post by jlf65 on Jul 27, 2010 3:53:56 GMT -5
The issue with "do Quake and convert Doom to it" is in that "convert Doom to it". Go ahead - make a Doom TC for Quake and I'll skip Doom. There's a reason you only see things like ONE LEVEL converted over to Quake - it's a HELL of a lot of work! I can port the maps from Doom to Quake for you, the only problem would be the models. You can use some of the Quake weapon models (shotguns, nailgun for chaingun, rockets, etc.) and models for items (armor, health), but the monsters would have to be made from scratch. I can do basic modelling, but nothing like creating monsters and animating them. If you really want to do that, I suggest you look at the models for Doomsday. They've had 3D models for things and enemies for quite some time now.
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Post by Syniphas on Jul 27, 2010 8:19:36 GMT -5
Making DooM maps for Quake isn't the way to go here...
We don't need one unified engine to run both, what I meant was like:
-Graphics engine -Game engine
For example, DooM game engine would call the graphics engine: draw wall etc at place etc ...while the Quake engine could do the same thing. But, for the game, maps and etc, they're completely different.
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Post by jlf65 on Jul 27, 2010 18:56:21 GMT -5
The graphics engine is usually embedded in the game engine. For example, the graphics engine is Doom also allows the game engine to determine the visibility and sound cues that drive the enemies. The layout of the levels determines how the game engine can move the players/enemies. You can't separate the two like you seem to think unless the game was written that way specifically in the first place. Conversions of Doom like Doomsday (jDoom) that give Doom a new graphics engine do it by rewriting the original game code, finding all the places the graphics engine is part of the game engine and altering them in a specific way to do the graphics differently.
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